Could The Loss of Long Beach Mean The End of IndyCar?

"Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V)" (gaborvajda) 03/22/2014 at 02:56 • Filed to: indycar, long beach, f1, formula 1, formula one, tuscc, tudor sportscar, indianapolis, indianapolis 500, indy 5000

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Rumours have turned into more or less believable financial figures recently how F1 could take Long Beach back. These mills include some investors you might have thought of or you had wished you have. From the race fan's perspective that doesn't really matter. What matters is whether the so-fragile organisation of IndyCar could survive yet another such loss.

Make no mistake here, Indianapolis + Long Beach = IndyCar. The rest of the season can be replaced with other contenders. These two races define what IndyCar is today. American open-wheel racing once !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! that is running IndyCar today, and it wasn't too far off to say the definite host of The Great American Race would hold the 500-miler with stock cars. During this period it was up to Long Beach to fly the flag for CART and it is fair to say that it forever established itself as the "street Indy" apart from being the "Monaco of the US" [insert your rant about it here]. Either of these races go away during such unstable period for motor racing, IndyCar shall be driven to the ground now, most likely.

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In 1996 there had been enough fans to American open-wheel racing to support two series that went against each other, but it also meant their respective supporters pulled in different directions, too, and slowly killed the phenomena itself, - only to regain some of their integrity based on the history and remaining fans from years ago. Are there enough fans to support a series that is defined by the month of May only, with the rest of the season serving as a prelude and post-note to one single event, without any relevant manufacturer support or household names on the driver front?

Sportscar racing in the US relatively quickly realised they needed to join after witnessing what happened to Indy and noticing that they were probably left out in the cold without any major manufacturer involvement, and while it has massive teething problems, they most likely took the right direction. Those sports cars have the prestige Indy cars might not, as it is easier to connect casinos, golf courses and holiday resorts with Ferraris and Porsches while everyone can drive Corvettes around. Now if only they were able to further simplify the categories, it could easily be the thinking man's race series that is accessible to all audiences, too, that has clear strategy involved and technological relevance - all of those that should define open-wheel racing but don't.

In spirit of the Indy 500, I'm afraid TUSCC is much closer to the ethos it represents than IndyCar itself. Should F1 make a move to Long Beach, the new faces of the month of May could be sports cars for the better, stock cars for the worst.

What's your take on the sate of IndyCar and F1's pushing to take another step on the West coast?

Team6.1 > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 09:20

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Great read. I just don't see where Indy car fits into the picture going forward. F1, hugely popular worldwide with a growing us following has the prestige, tracks, star drivers, big money sponsors, and history that Indy cars all lack. NASCAR is the approachable classic american, sunday afternoon/primetime series. Sports car has real cars. Wouldn't be surprised to see it flounder, but with easy advertising/manufacturing support it has potential. Club racers, weekend warriors, grass roots racers, could root for teams/cars (Porsche, corvette, etc) until star drivers emerge. Which leaves Indy car, which kind of has the image as bad F1. Doesn't have the bump and grind racing of NASCAR. Lost star drivers to nascar. I'm not sure what they can bring to the table that isn't already provided by one of those other 3 series.

xcheck44 > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 09:49

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Only one thing has killed IndyCar- the spec chassis.

tifosi3317 > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 09:54

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I don't think I agree with this. Long beach is a great race with a rich history and tradition but as long as they have Indianapolis, there will always be Indycar racing. Also, I think F1 at Long Beach will never happen. Even if it did, who is to say there can't be two races in different parts of the year? F1 is usually in Europe in May.

highplainsdrifter > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 09:56

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Sadly it seems all forms of American racing are dying out. Being killed by greed/NASCAR. Have you seen what they did to the ALMS?

That said why can't Indycar and F1 use the same track? Also how will the Long Beach track become FIA approved for safety and whatnot? And F1 races are very expensive, who is going to write Bernie a 50 million dollar cheque?

Indycar racing is great and I really hope it stays around for a long time.

Vaughn Berberet > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 09:57

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Dear god please bring F1 back to Long Beach! Does anybody have an idea when this could happen?

Hshsjsjshsksjsk > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 09:59

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God, this article is poorly written. The sentence structure is just convoluted.

I read it three times, and I still have no idea what the hell most of it is about.

nikiaf27 > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 10:06

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Indy Car is basically Formula 1 minus the prestige teams like Ferrari and McLaren; and also minus the talented drivers. Don't get me wrong, some of these guys and girls are good, but put them in an F1 car, and they won't be competitive no matter how much practice they get beforehand.

Let's be honest here; any sport is a business, meaning it's primary goal is to make money. There is a lot more money to be made by hosting a Formula 1 race, as it'll attract a significantly bigger TV audience, and it'll attract brands with much bigger advertising budgets.

While F1 in the US has not been as popular as you would think, give it some time to be properly explained and some time to grow organically; and it could completely replace Indy Car. And personally, I'd have no problem with that.

Just wear your damn mask... > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 10:07

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No, it would not be the end of IndyCar. IF Formula One was able to waive its own track safety requirements (the closest circuit in format to Long Beach is Monaco, which has been grandfathered in for decades) and run at Long Beach, the more likely outcome would be the end of Long Beach as a racing circuit. Formula One is far too greedy as an organization to allow a municipality like Long Beach to make any money. Putting on a Formula One race is infinitely more expensive than an IndyCar/ TUSCC race, and the locals don't get that money.

Long Beach is an important race, but let's not kid ourselves either. The event has been an American Open Wheel Racing (AOWR) event since the mid 80's, but the current incarnation of IndyCar has only been racing there since 2009.

Would it hurt? Yes. Would it be fatal? No.

MrBloodMuffins > highplainsdrifter 03/22/2014 at 10:09

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Bernie refuses to race on any track Indycar races on.

stephenmcknight2011@hotmail.co.uk > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 10:17

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for all the faults with the new F1 engines as least there using new tech, Indycar ignored this technology and is struggling to stay relevent in today media driven market. rating are going down Year by year as indy car stick to it traditon.

my idea with indycar is simple take the best of F1 and Amercianised the hell out of it. get three Tire company and have a tire war, do the Qualfying shootout and give points for the top ten.

Finally have two free pratice session were the team can work on car set up, that will allow the teams a chance to get use to the tracks and street courses. if Indy car refuse to embrace these simple changes then it dead in the water.

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > Just wear your damn mask... 03/22/2014 at 10:27

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According to Joe Saward's post here , F1 (i.e. Bernie & Co.) made some really aggressive moves to host an F1 race at Long Beach. These numbers (if true) are far too impressive for the town leadership to ignore.

Let's say it happens. It would probably kill Long Beah Grand Prix after a while, the town would probably never welcome IndyCar back after the fiasco (as I hear, LGGP is harder to pull off each year.), it might probably kill off chances of further F1 races to be organized in the US as everyone would be fed up with it, which could possibly mean open-wheel racing could go down the drain.

MrBloodMuffins > nikiaf27 03/22/2014 at 10:28

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Like Jacques Villnueve and Juan Pablo Montoya, those indycar drivers could never race in F1 let alone be world drivers champions.

theBKA > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 10:30

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I'd say Turbo was the death rattle of Indycar, but it could just be that I hate this movie and forget Indy is still a thing until Long Beach comes up every year.

highplainsdrifter > Vaughn Berberet 03/22/2014 at 10:31

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Never, unless they demolish the city and build an FIA spec track paid for by the public with no chance of a return on the investment, and then pay bernie the 50 million sanctioning fee. I'm not sure where the rumor started but it was never gonna happen and never will.

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > highplainsdrifter 03/22/2014 at 10:33

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The USA is the last bastion F1 hasn't conquered, but it would never generate more viewing numbers Indycar does. Bernie WANTS to own it, as the latest offers show.

highplainsdrifter > Hshsjsjshsksjsk 03/22/2014 at 10:33

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It's not even remotely true either. I'm assuming somebody who organizes the Long Beach Indycar race mentioned it to give them leverage in negotiations. And They probably called his bluff in two seconds.

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > tifosi3317 03/22/2014 at 10:35

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Doesn't necessarily mean the Long Beach Grand Prix would stay in May.

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > Hshsjsjshsksjsk 03/22/2014 at 10:38

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Thanks for this, I upvoted it specifically because: 1. I didn't think it was Jalopnik front-page material 2. I just rushed through it in the morning before leaving for work, without giving it too much thought 4. 2. I'm not a native English-speaker

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > theBKA 03/22/2014 at 10:39

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You have to agree that it's still light years better than 'Driven'.

LongbowMkII > theBKA 03/22/2014 at 10:39

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At least if a snail entered the 500 there would be something interesting on track.

Kate's Dirty Sister > MrBloodMuffins 03/22/2014 at 10:40

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That was a while back, when Indy was competitive.

Not the same story today.

highplainsdrifter > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 10:44

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Chris Pook wants F1 back at Long Beach because he is running low on cash probably. F1 wants to be back in Southern California. Long Beach city council rejected to even discuss the idea, too expensive.

nikiaf27 > MrBloodMuffins 03/22/2014 at 10:49

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JPM won the world championship?! Where was I when this happened?

theBKA > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 10:50

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I'm pretty sure sepsis is more enjoyable than Driven, but it didn't have dudebros doing wheelies in magic muscle cars so its got that going for it.

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > highplainsdrifter 03/22/2014 at 10:51

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What Bernie could actually do is to make an offer the city council can't refuse, generate some interest with the first race, and then slowly but firmly raise the price. Surely, F1 needs Long Beach more than the other way around (speaking of US market), and this time it seems they mean it. Bernie was willing to do a favour for the German GP when it was in his own interest, he could do the same with Long Beach without a question.

MrBloodMuffins > nikiaf27 03/22/2014 at 10:52

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2003

nikiaf27 > Kate's Dirty Sister 03/22/2014 at 10:53

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If your sample size is big enough, eventually you'll find someone who was good in both sports. I suppose you can argue Nigel Mansell as well but that was in the reverse order.

Plus, just look at Sebastien Bourdais. You'd think after all the success he had in other series that F1 would be a natural fit, but it really didn't work out for him.

Hoonigan96 > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 10:53

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That day you're talking about, 5/26/96, that was the first race I ever watched. It was the first thing I ever watched, for crying out loud I was only born 5 days before that. I've always loved open wheel racing. It's been engrained in me, like when ducks are imprinted to the nearest thing to them, they assume its their mother. Something about open wheel racing is just epic to me. I remember my dad taking me to CART testing days at Laguna Seca, the smell of the race gas and the sound of the pop-off valve as they let off the throttle, purely awesome. When CART turned into Champ Car I was excited that I still had those cool turbo cars, but then Champ Car went away and all we had was IRL. IRL took a while for me to get used to it, but after we went to LBGP as usual, watching those cars scream down Shorline was all it took for me to accept IRL. When IRL turned into IndyCar it was still a really cool experience, and I don't want to see America's last open wheel racing series to go away. I have seen Formula One in person before, granted yes it was the tire scandal of 2005 at the USGP at Indy, but still F1 is F1. Formula One is a safer racing series by far, there's no denying that. Ayrton Senna was the last and one of the biggest losses Formula One has ever had and it was almost 20 years ago. IndyCar only recently overhauled the car to make it safer and the man that was developing it passed away almost 3 years ago. I was there, and I still have the admission ticket and the car identification guide. I don't mind Formula One in the US, I love it! I went to Austin to watch the V8 Supercars at their debut in the States, its a great track and the facility is good too. It's a great place for Formula One and for V8 Supercars to return. However, I think Texas is as far west as Formula One needs to go. Unless some Hawaiian billionare builds some F1 track that is breathtaking, but hell, that's pretty damn unlikely. F1 stay in Texas and IndyCar keep screaming down Shorline

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > theBKA 03/22/2014 at 10:54

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You mean the thing you felt was unrealistic and distracting in 'Tubeo' was muscle cars doing wheelies?

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > Hoonigan96 03/22/2014 at 10:56

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Seriously, I got caught up at the point where you said you were born in '96. I feel old.

nikiaf27 > MrBloodMuffins 03/22/2014 at 10:56

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What exactly did he win? The world championship of walking into TV cameramen?

Hoonigan96 > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 10:58

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haha, yeah I'm a young one. My dad started me early on racing and all I ever talk about is cars. Racing is one passion that I will never lose.

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > Hoonigan96 03/22/2014 at 10:59

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I haven't had a father, so I'm kind of envious.

Hoonigan96 > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 11:02

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Well, you did fall in love with cars on your own which is badass in its own terms :D

tifosi3317 > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 11:04

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Maybe. Still I can't see F1 there again.

Christopher Modiano > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 11:06

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We might be getting a bit over dramatic here..... no, losing Long Beach won't be the end of Indy Car....

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > Christopher Modiano 03/22/2014 at 11:07

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It might not be Long Beach directly, but could as well be the first (?) nail in the coffin.

Grant Leavitt > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 11:08

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I don't think the loss of Long Beach would hurt... then again, Long Beach and Indy 500 were part of the F1 calendar at separate times in F1's history; Long Beach was part of the calendar in the 1970s, called USGP West to distinguish it from the USGP at Watkins Glen when they ran in the same year. However, I've heard that the Sonoma Raceway (formerly Infineon Raceway formerly Sears Point) was a likely candidate for a F1 visit, and Long Beach was not as likely.

But... why can't F1 and IndyCar share the same race weekend at a US location? One race could be held the day before the other, or perhaps as a support race. However, fans of one series may be sad if their series plays a lowly supporting role to another (F1 as a support race for IndyCar?! Over my dead body!).

To prevent this, I propose, if F1 were really interested in Long Beach again, to run the same race weekend with IndyCar (to prevent having to close public roads twice a year); and Formula 1 USGP West be run as a Saturday night race as opposed to a Saturday afternoon race. This would at least try and help F1 fans elsewhere in the world to watch at a reasonable time, and nobody's at work on a Monday. Plus, F1 has done night races as seen with the introduction of the Singapore GP night race and this year's 10th Anniversary Bahrain GP night race, in addition with the Abu Dhabi twilight race. I don't recall IndyCar ever having a true scheduled night race, which is why I propose that F1 get the nighttime race.

996C2 > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 11:15

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Indy Car is going to lose Toronto after this years race so Long Beach going F1 would reduce Indy Car to a level people haven't seen since the 60's for media attention.

highplainsdrifter > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 11:16

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Yes that is technically true but very very unlikely. The big difference between Germany and Long Beach is the tracks. The current Long Beach track can not host F1 (It's barely safe for indycars) in its current configuration. A big investment in the track will be required. I'm a bigger fan of Indycar and sports cars than F1 so personally I wan't F1 to find its own place.

American race fans are going the way of the dinosaur so I would bet on F1 investing in other untapped markets like they are doing in Russia and unfortunately failed to do in India.

The less democratic a country the more likely F1 will be there from what recent history has shown. Russia, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi are some of the newest stops on the calendar and we all know how money flows in those parts. The North Korean Grand Prix is more likely than Long Beach at this point.

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > Grant Leavitt 03/22/2014 at 11:17

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That all sounds fantastic, but I think it's more about getting IndyCar replaced by F1.

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > 996C2 03/22/2014 at 11:18

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Now that was a time F1 had some excellent outings at Watkins Glen.

996C2 > Hoonigan96 03/22/2014 at 11:24

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"Unless some Hawaiian billionare builds some F1 track that is breathtaking, but hell, that's pretty damn unlikely."

There is a stalled proposal for a road course on the big Island somewhere around Kona - they've been looking for investors (rich track day people) but so far no heavy equipment has begun moving. Lots of lava rock for a base - not so good for run off... (eek!) The problem is the low population of sports cars on the island. Probably more successful on Oahu (far more sports cars) but space and environmentalists would be an issue.

Just wear your damn mask... > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 11:26

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The flaw in your argument is saying that Formula One represents all open- wheel racing. There are plenty of venues that could (and have) worked for IndyCar that Formula One would never consider. The economics are just in another universe.

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > Just wear your damn mask... 03/22/2014 at 11:28

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What I want to say exactly is that F1 WANTS to represent all open-wheel racing.

Hoonigan96 > 996C2 03/22/2014 at 11:32

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WHAT!?? No way, thats awesome. That would be absolutely insane, I've only been to Maui but still, Oahu would be gorgeous. Maybe the run off will be black sand...(lol). Environmentalists suck. You know I drove a Prius once, it was awful. Just.....awful. Not gonna lie, I may have died a little inside. That thing is a washing machine on wheels.

Grant Leavitt > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 11:37

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I just don't see that happening, though.

dataPOG > Hoonigan96 03/22/2014 at 11:40

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Good to know I'm not the only dad that starts the kids off early on racing...

dataPOG > Grant Leavitt 03/22/2014 at 11:47

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I don't think there's enough land available to Bruton Smith to make Sonoma F1 safe. It is quite literally wedged into where it is. Outside the fence at Turn 10 is a public road.

dataPOG > xcheck44 03/22/2014 at 11:52

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You spelled Tony George wrong.

awesomemcbrosaucerton > Grant Leavitt 03/22/2014 at 11:58

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IMO, I'd rather have those roads closed two separate weekends than having 1 billion people in the city in one weekend. There would be shuttle buses everywhere, hotels would be filled far beyond capacity. You'd probably have people staying all the fucking way past Seal Beach and Signal Hill(which I highly doubt many people would want to do after seeing the area). San Pedro would be stuffed, everywhere, people. If you saw what F1 alone did to Austin that first year it came, people were staying out in fucking Georgetown for fucks sake. I don't think LB could handle that many people at once.

Zachary B > MrBloodMuffins 03/22/2014 at 12:01

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That reportedly isn't true. There have been talks evidently with CoA and I haven't heard for sure that they are purely "in case" the F1 race evaporates there. I don't think Bernie considers the current IndyCar much of a threat.

Zachary B > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 12:04

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What has come up to cover the two massive costs, those being what it will take to bring the facilities up to spec and the yearly sanctioning fee? Investors sounds great but they'd have to be long term investors as costs don't typically go down with F1 sanctioning fees.

MrBloodMuffins > Zachary B 03/22/2014 at 12:09

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I would consider this a lame duck year for Indycar and the clearest picture should be 2016/2017

996C2 > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 12:10

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Indy car need to get away from the street circuits and back to natural road courses. The problem with street courses is that they require public funding. At one time you could sell these cities on the idea that if you build it they will come. Problem is; it was always voodoo economics in that there are very few outsiders coming into a city for Indy Car racing now compared to the 80's. So now a city is paying money to promoters to put on a race so that its own residents can watch it ? Taxpayers money? In these times? Nope.

Toronto is a case in point. Between the City and the Province they pay American promoters one million per year to offset these businessman's expenses. Ummm, wait? Offset? Now back in the late 80's you could make some sort of argument that it filled hotel rooms and restaurants for a SINGLE weekend - and this was when the City didn't pay any money - they were actually PAID by Molsons to 'rent' the City property and pay for City work crews for a weekend.

Now... taxpayers can't even recover city expenses and now have to PAY a million per year on top, (split 50/50 between City and Province)? Now you know why when the agreement is over after this years event - the parties over in Toronto. Not to mention the Pan Am games and renovation to BMO field will remove part of the race course in the next three years. The City makes more income from the Gay Pride weekend (six times the visitors) then Indy Car - an event that receives only a fraction of the funding that Indy Car receives and an event that doesn't tie up Lakeshore Blvd for weeks before and after the event with cement wall and fencing crews.

FYI: We also found the imposition of passports by the US Government killed off a huge amount of Indy Car fans going north - so there goes a lot of hotel rooms empty.

I'd love to see Indy Cars back to places like the Glen, Mosport (CTMP), Road America, Laugna, etc as they just look so great there - none of this start and stop / hit a wall and be done crap.

I don't buy the scam that F1 will not cost the City of Long Beach or the State any money. This is Bernie we're talking about here. I don't trust Bernie's friend Chris Pook either. That they have found an event sponsor that will bend over big time for five years (or what ever the length of contract) and hang in there on the traditional fee increases over those five years equals bullshit. Its the old bait and switch move. Montreal found out all about this scam. By year three the promoter is back at City council begging for money or they have to go under without taxpayer funding. Wait for it. Then there is the facility complaints by Bernie before the next contract renewal so there goes another $20M... Same old / same old. Let Bernie stay in these shit hole totalitarian, dictator run back waters and Long Beach - spend your hard earned dollars on schools or something better for your residents.

Do not trust Bernie. At least with Indy Car the fees / risk to taxpayers is way lower.

F1? Get the lube out.

pronebird > nikiaf27 03/22/2014 at 12:13

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Hey, maybe those F1 drivers aren't so much better than the good drivers in other series. :P

Just wear your damn mask... > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 12:22

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Formula One will have to wrest the European system away from the FIA before even thinking about supplanting IndyCar.

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > Just wear your damn mask... 03/22/2014 at 12:24

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Anyhow, it won't happen because Bernie will be dead in the close future, possibly.

996C2 > Hoonigan96 03/22/2014 at 12:30

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http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2014…

Interestingly - I just happened to take these pictures a few weeks ago while on holidays. The track layout from their map is in the middle of a not quite active volcano field, (last flows 20 years ago). In the shots below its in the flat area below the volcano peaks in the distance. The airport is to your right about two miles away.

kniga > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 12:36

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Yes indeed. Losing Long Beach would simply confirm the obvious. First, IndyCar loses Australia, Japan, and now Brazil in the last three years, showing that IndyCar has become quite irrelevant internationally. Then there is the news of other race tracks lost within the United States, such as Baltimore. At the same time, even though the fans have crying to bring Road America, Watkins Glen, or Laguna Seca to the schedule, we're being offered only the irrelevant road course race on the Indy track or more of those double decker events on nasty street tracks. So yes, losing Long Beach and failing to replace it with anything comparable would look really bad. It's quite obvious.

pisswizard69 > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 12:42

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Long Beach is not going to be an F1 race, so it's as moot an argument as asking 'could F1 survive if IndyCar took Monaco?'

kniga > nikiaf27 03/22/2014 at 12:57

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Yes, on average F1 drivers are better. However, it's not like the average F1 drivers are great. Besides the top 10 drivers, the rest of F1 drivers are pretty dull. Put them into an IndyCar, and they will perform like Barrichello in 2012 at best.

kniga > 996C2 03/22/2014 at 13:01

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I agree. Most of street races are pretty dull. However, supposedly they may make more commercial sense. The road courses look better to the fans, but there are a lot of casual observers who you won't drag out of the city, but who could attend if you bring the F1 race to them.. that's the conventional thinking at least. I wish they had more races on road courses.

Gavin S. > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 13:10

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Would anyone notice?

nikiaf27 > kniga 03/22/2014 at 13:12

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It really depends. Yes Barichello wasn't amazing in Indy but he was also 39 at the time. Justin Wilson scored all of one point in F1 but has a few race wins in Indy.

JDIGGS > MrBloodMuffins 03/22/2014 at 13:15

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BERNIE IS DONE FOR, F THAT ASSHAT. I will cheer the day his shitty black heart gives out.

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > Gavin S. 03/22/2014 at 13:18

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This. More interestingly, F1 wouldn't get much more viewers either. I think it's just a prestige battle for Bernie to claim open-wheel racing in America for himselfm however week that victory is.

kniga > nikiaf27 03/22/2014 at 13:22

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That's probably because Minardi on average produced mediocre cars. In IndyCar he raced a spec chassis which puts a lot more control in the pilot's hands.

Hshsjsjshsksjsk > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 14:06

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Gabor - learning that English isn't your primary language adds quite a bit of context to the grammar and sentence structure issues of your post. I hope my criticism didn't offend.

That said, I wish Jalopnik would more carefully edit content that they're posting to the front page. These issues seem to be increasing in number.

theBKA > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 14:10

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Well also some of the aerodynamics on the indy cars weren't accurate. Otherwise it was pretty true to life, but then again I do a lot of drugs so take that with a grain of salt.

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > Hshsjsjshsksjsk 03/22/2014 at 14:16

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No offence taken, I can see what you mean. The bigger problem is that I was in a rush, I started it and thought had a great deal of time, but I didn't and rushed off to work. Probably it was mostly due to the lack of elaborate punctuation. Reading through again I didn't quite understand some bits either, so I added some extra punctuation marks here and there and I think it is much more comprehensive now. I wanted to run it through the Hemingway app to check, but there just wasn't enough time. Anyway, I was much surprised to learn that it landed on Jalopnik's front page when I got back from work. Had a few pieces there before, but definitely this is the worst one of them as far as the text itself goes. I also noticed the trend that there are more and more posts pulled over from Oppositelock, which is quite good for the everyman posting his/her stuff, but it may not be as healthy for the blog itself.

Doug Nash > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 14:58

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Odd. I have read more than a few reports in LB local papers which indicate that the costs to the city and any potential sponsors, to get an F1 race, are simply prohibitive. Indy has always been a relative bargain.

Just Cars for Joe Bryant > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 15:12

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What Indy Car needs to is loosen the rules on car development, open it up to more manufacturers. Have a basic set of rules for engine, chassis, etc., not a set rule that says this is the exact car you will use (although admittedly the engine formula is a bit more lenient). That way you have more than one chassis manufacturer (and more than one chassis), and more than two engine manufacturers. Sure that will kick out some of the privateers, but they are usually backmarkers anyways.

People say F1's rules are strict but look at all of the different engines, chassis, and manufacturers involved in the sport. Peoples loyalty to a given manufacturer also props up their loyalty to a given driver and visa versa (Need I say Tifosi ).

427zeo6 > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 16:37

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I've been to more than one Long Beach F1 race.....have never been to the Indy car races there......nuff said?

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > Just Cars for Joe Bryant 03/22/2014 at 16:49

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Indy cannot afford it at the moment.

66ChevelleSS > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 17:27

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I continue to blame Tony George for all bad things that happen to U.S. open wheel racing. I know there's arguably plenty of blame to go around, but he always gets my vote.

debrajwarren > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 17:44

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my roomate's mother-in-law makes $60 /hour on the computer . She has been without a job for 7 months but last month her income was $21606 just working on the computer for a few hours. over at this website

www.max34.com

Kate's Dirty Sister > nikiaf27 03/22/2014 at 18:24

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Didn't worked for Zanardi as well.

Ok the Lotus he was driving before indy and the he drove after were both terrible, but he was still much slower than JV in the Williams.

Grant Leavitt > dataPOG 03/22/2014 at 19:25

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I know. Sonoma isn't the only road course on the west coast with potential to host a future F1 grand prix. And maybe F1 can waive some of the more land-use-heavy safety features (run-off areas, etc), install catch fences (if none are already in use) near the high-risk areas of the track (near the roads, etc), since F1 still uses the antiquated Monaco circuit which has EVEN LESS room for F1's safety regulations.

Willow Springs, Buttonwillow, Miller Motorsports Park, and many others have the potential to become an F1 race holder; I use that word "potential" loosely as obviously these tracks may have sub-standard (in F1's view) safety features and/or may not be able to afford the astronomical F1 race and contract fees.

I personally have been to Miller Motorsports Park (as I'm sure others have as well) and think it would be a good location for an F1 race. The Rocky Mountains in the background (and the track's desert-like conditions offer a dramatically different terrain of America that most people are probably not familiar with), perhaps plenty of run-off areas, roads away from the track, and nearby hospitality (Salt Lake City, Tooele, and others) make it a great candidate. However, even though it hosts plenty of races including a Superbike race, I'm not sure if the mayor of Tooele would be willing to cough up the fees required to run the race to F1-specs.

Grant Leavitt > awesomemcbrosaucerton 03/22/2014 at 19:32

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Hmm, you do bring up a good point. When I suggested a double race weekend hosting both Indy and F1, I did so from the perspective of someone having to drive through that race weekend traffic for one weekend would be bad enough, let alone two race weekends. It takes a week or two to put up the barriers and fencing, and then after the race, another 1-2 weeks to take it all down (I'm only guessing; I never found out how long it takes to erect a track's barriers, equipment and facilities for a race weekend, and then take it all out after a race). Of course, perhaps event organizers put the barriers up lining the sides of roads and only close the roads with the final barriers when the first trailers start arriving...

Omnislash79 > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 19:39

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I though F1 left LB because they didn't want to update safety.

Patrick Fernandez > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 23:01

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Indycar is a joke. No one remembers who wins the Indy 500 nowadays. The best Indycar drivers cannot get seats with F1 bottom dwellers. Anyways I doubt F1 would ever return to Long Beach because the layout is not a great enough spectacle.

Sector38 > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/22/2014 at 23:40

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What about the ultimate double header event Indy in the morning and F1 in the afternoon!

Plus those bouncing trucks from the baltimore race for shits and giggles

Christopher Tarhan > Hoonigan96 03/23/2014 at 00:56

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Absolutely!!! Couldn't agree more. Definitely want Indycars to STAY IN LONG BEACH!

Christopher Tarhan > 427zeo6 03/23/2014 at 00:59

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Too bad you're missing out.

Squid > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/23/2014 at 02:37

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I don't think that F1 could put together a race in Long Beach. Really unless F1 payed LBC for the race I don't see them paying Bernie to make it happen. It would be cool if it did and I'd love to go if they did have it but really that would be a race that is better to watch on TV. . .

Also I think that Indycar might survive it because it seems like they are getting their shit together, but I don't know, the only circle racing that interests me are the short tracks like the 1/2 mile tracks.

FormerInstants > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/23/2014 at 04:08

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Why can't America support more than 1 open-wheel series and more than 1 sports car series? I find this notion completely ridiculous compared to what's going on in Europe, where I can name half a dozen of each just off the top of my head. Am I lending too much notoriety to series that don't really have it?

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > FormerInstants 03/23/2014 at 05:07

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Because NASCAR.

C B > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/23/2014 at 05:23

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I live right on the straightaway of the LBGP. I'm in one of the ocean-front condo towers on Ocean Blvd. I can see the race track being built from my balcony right now. I love the LBGP, and I'm always stoked for it every year. However, knowing how much of pricks the F1 league are, I don't think we'd want them here. I'm sure they'd make ridiculous demands that we'd have to accommodate to make the circuit glass-smooth and perfect for them. They'd bankrupt our city. F1 can stay in TX. I'll go see them there, maybe. I'll stick to TUDOR (ALMS + Grand Am) and my Indy Cars, kthx.

FoolInjection > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/23/2014 at 08:00

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I've not followed IndyCar for a long time. Even though Dario Franchitti and Dan Wheldon, 2 British drivers, were racing in the series and doing really well, the only race that I remember seeing heavily advertised was the Indy500. Not since Nigel Mansell in 1993 and 1994 has IndyCar or CART been heavily promoted here in the UK.

Formula 1 making in roads into the West of the USA does make sense. F1 seems to be making a big push at the US again and it would appear to me they want 3 races a year there or at least 1 or 2 races on a kind of round-robin format. Much like the way the German Grand Prix is between Hockenheim and Nurburgring. So I could see a scenario in the future where they have an East US GP at the Port Imperial Circuit, a Central US GP at Circuit of the Americas and a West US GP at Long Beach. Either that or the Central US GP and alternating coast-to-coast each year.

Why Long Beach though? Well in my mind this will be Bernie harking back to the 70's and 80's when Long Beach was a permanent fixture on the F1 calender. It would make sense in his mind to try and go back there. Especially when you look at some of the other F1 circuits they raced on during that period. I don't think anyone would want to see a return to the likes of the Las Vegas GP, which was held in a car-park next to Caesers Palace, or the streets of Pheonix, Arizona which the drivers universally hated.

Where else on the West coast could they go? Only two places really spring to mind. Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca, which I personally would pay to see F1 cars taking the corkscrew, or Sears Point/Sonoma/Infineon Raceway whichever it's called now. Both of those tracks have held open-wheel events and are in California.

Would F1 going to Long Beach kill IndyCar? In my mind, no it wouldn't but they would have to find a way to share that circuit. I think it would be rather poor show taking it away from IndyCar completely. Maybe they could have F1 race there one year and IndyCar the next. Granted that would be like taking Monaco out of the calender every other year for F1 but I certainly think that both series would have to come to a compromise. With in my opinion F1, being the "outsider" doing the compromising... Or F1 goes to Laguna Seca...

kniga > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/23/2014 at 08:35

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Bernie Ecclestone always exploits the opportunity to start the negotiations on yet another GP, even though ex ante sometimes it is clear that the GP has little chance of happening. That's irrelevant. Bernie always tries to have as many potential GPs lined up in advance as possible in order to keep a constant pressure on the existing ones to pay him through the nose, because every GP organizer knows that if their GP drops out, there are like three others waiting to take the open place.

Hoonigan96 > Christopher Tarhan 03/23/2014 at 16:23

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my dad has taken me since I was 3 and it's a tradition we have now

FormerInstants > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/23/2014 at 20:14

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Still doesn't make sense. We as a nation can only support three racing series? Give me a break.

SubiSanchez > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/24/2014 at 13:43

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As much as I follow Formula One and love auto racing, I would hate to see F1 come to Long Beach because I know Bernie and Co would bleed this great race to death and then move on to some other cash cow. Formula One would be the death of the Long Beach Grand Prix while IndyCar is still a sustainable option. I was born in Long Beach and the Grand Prix was the first race I ever saw in person and the reason why I love all things to do with racing. This year I have the privilege to be attending the race again after many years being away from Southern California. I am excited for what promises to be a great weekend filled with racing action. If it were to become a Formula One race then everything except for maybe a Sunday general admission pass would be out of my budget and probably for most of the people that currently attend the event. I do hope when the current contract ends in 2015 it is renewed as an IndyCar race and includes all the other series(TUSCC, PWC, SST, Toy Pro/Celeb) that make this an interesting event instead of becoming an F1 glamor show.

Jonny683 > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/24/2014 at 16:20

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Why the hell would F1 want Long Beach? The track would be useless to them.

You know what I'd like to see? NASCAR at Long Beach. Do a Shared weekend with the IndyCars. Use the N'Wide or Trucks.

flabberboozled > FormerInstants 03/24/2014 at 22:32

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Besides F1 and WRC, I can't think of a pan-European series. And both F1 and WRC, while very Euro-centric, are also global. Everything else is nation based a la BTCC/DTM/DTCC or Scottish Rally Championship. So, the America isn't that different from European nations.

NastyKnate > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 03/25/2014 at 02:20

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"Make no mistake here, Indianapolis + Long Beach = IndyCar. The rest of the season can be replaced with other contenders. " Booooo!!! BOOOOOO!!!!

Toronto? Laguna Seca? I get what you're saying, but there are several tracks that I would be lost without. However, I do think any incarnation of IndyCar only needs Indy.

FormerInstants > flabberboozled 03/25/2014 at 05:27

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Well I mean you've also got WTCC, Blancpain Endurence, Blancpain Sprint (formerly FIA GT), WEC, ELMS, 24H Series, Renault World Series, GP2 & 3, Formula 3, and RallycrossRX that are "pan-European," plus DTM and V8 Supercars are fairly international these days too. And that's not even counting bikes and one-make racing.

So what's wrong with American auto racing?

flabberboozled > FormerInstants 03/25/2014 at 16:37

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World Series/GP2/3 and Formula 3 are feeder series. If you include those, then you might as well include the Nationwide series as well midgets, sprint and outlaw as being American series. Endurence/WEC has an American equivalent, ALMS. RallycrossRX has its equivalent with Rally America, but lets be honest about the difference of importance with this.

Europe has an investment in F1, so you get multiple feeder series for open wheeled racing. 'Merica is all about NASCAR, so you get multiple feeder series to that.

There's nothing wrong with American racing. Your question really is "Why isn't American racing more like Europe?"

FormerInstants > flabberboozled 03/25/2014 at 20:19

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A fair point about the Formula series. WEC was similar to ALMS in 2006, but it in no way compares to TUSCC right now (which hasn't gone a whole race yet without making a mockery of itself). Plus Blancpain Endurance, 24H Series, and ELMS are headliners in their own right, making four separate endurance series running around Europe simultaneously. Rally America is the American version of WRC. Global Rally Cross is the American version of Rallycross RX, except that GRC is flat terrible in comparison.

Maybe my question is actually "why isn't American racing more like Europe?" Maybe there's a lot more club and grassroots racing in America, I don't really know what that scene is like in Europe. But the fact that there's three American series I'll even try to watch regularly compared to almost two dozen in Europe, that says to me there's something wrong with American racing.